You wrote, "I realize many divorces are the result of infidelity or abuse" I cringe when I hear or read the word abuse without its proper qualifier of physical. because just as the word "health" was changed to mean mental health and not physical health in the abortion debate so has the word abuse been changed. And believe me, because of experience, mental health or mental abuse can mean absolutely anything you want it to mean to justify your actions. I was divorced by a woman who claimed mental abuse but could not in any clear way cite what that abuse actually was. However, the pastors of my church fully supported her actions and were very critical of me even though I was doing everything I could to reconcile and not be divorced. In the end, her mind was made up and wasn't going to be changed and the main reason was because of the support she was receiving from people who should have known better. Since the divorce some of those people continue to fellowship with her in spite of the fact that her actions since the divorce (which includes abandoning our children completely, she even told one that she didn't want to have a relationship with him) prove that the only problem in the marriage was her refusal to acccept the truth of Scripture and abide by the guidlines therein.
by the way, the best sermon I have ever heard on this subject was by Alistair Begg (Truth for Life) unlike all others I have heard he didn't mince words on the ugliness and sin of divorce. He also did something else that I have heard nowhere else. Everytime I have heard someone mention the verse that speaks about how the man needs to love his wife "as Christ loves the church" they invariably say that means sacrificially and even to the point of death. However when these same people quote the verse that says the wife should respect her husband they invariably qualify it by saying that doesn't mean the wife is to be a doormat. or some other such thing. basically saying that respect is not to be fully given in the same way as love is to be given by the husband. Begg on the other hand made it clear that this command to the wife is to be unqualified and is even amplified in another verse that says that the wife should respect the husband just as Sarah respected Abraham and even called him lord. Of course we are all expected even commanded to love each other as Jesus loves us. This is not limited to the husband but also includes the wife. and all the rest of us.
G. Frederick,
Thanks for your comment. It hurts to read your story. I'm sorry for what you had to go through.
You wrote, "I realize many divorces are the result of infidelity or abuse" I cringe when I hear or read the word abuse without its proper qualifier of physical. because just as the word "health" was changed to mean mental health and not physical health in the abortion debate so has the word abuse been changed.
I think there are plenty of cases where real emotional abuse takes place. That doesn't mean every time someone cries "abuse!" it is actually taking place, but, in addition to being a fragile bunch, humans are capable of horrible cruelty, and not all of it is physical.
As an aside, I'm not sure the idea of mental health is really a product of the abortion debate. It comes into play there (and believe me, I'm VERY pro-life), but having watched my family deal with the pain of psychological disorders, I have no problem discussing mental health. The mind is a powerful thing.
Begg on the other hand made it clear that this command to the wife is to be unqualified and is even amplified in another verse that says that the wife should respect the husband just as Sarah respected Abraham and even called him lord. Of course we are all expected even commanded to love each other as Jesus loves us. This is not limited to the husband but also includes the wife. and all the rest of us.
I agree, and I hope it didn't sound like I was implying otherwise. Marriage is an exercise in co-redemption.
Andrew, I apologize for sounding so defensive, and thank you for the kind words. My story, though sad, includes some wondrous blessings from the Father that I may not have received any other way. I went through a period of anger at God and couldn't understand why He would allow such things to happen to me. Well, He knows the beginning from the end and I don't. Just as in the Psalms, I want to end my ranting with Praise for the love, care, mercy and faithfulness of our wondrous God. By the way, I also am not ignorant of the real cases of psychological illness, but in my experience claims of especially emotional abuse are not supported by facts. I have heard the phrase "I need to learn to love myself" so many times it makes me sick to hear it now. The command is to love others not to love yourself and there is even a verse that says that no man has ever not loved himself but nourishes and cherishes his own body. I believe that pride is not that much different from the modern claim of "loving oneself"as to be nearly indistinguishable. But God is good all the time.
By the way, I also am not ignorant of the real cases of psychological illness, but in my experience claims of especially emotional abuse are not supported by facts.
Just keep in mind, your experience is not everyone else's. Emotional abuse kills marriages, just like physical abuse. And it can absolutely destroy children, who don't even know what abuse is. I'm not denying that people cry wolf, but that doesn't mean everyone is crying wolf.
The command is to love others not to love yourself and there is even a verse that says that no man has ever not loved himself but nourishes and cherishes his own body. I believe that pride is not that much different from the modern claim of "loving oneself"as to be nearly indistinguishable. But God is good all the time.
Well, the command is to love your neighbor "as yourself." Self-loathing is just a dressed up form of vanity, and it's just as sinful as above-and-beyond self-love.
"self-loathing is just a dressed up form of vanity" according to the Scripture I quoted Paul at least assumes (under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit" that self-loathing doesn't exist. I think self-loathing is a psycho-babble made up illness like co-dependence and the like. Andrew, I really am not attempting to argue with you (especially since I know that you are not only much more intelligent than I but also much more full of grace as well) but giving my experience and opinion. You are absolutely correct that my experience is not everyone's and I had no intention of suggesting it was or that my opinion is the only correct one, which is why I tried to include Scripture to emphasize the points I was trying to make. This is a touchy subject especially for me and others who were greatly wronged in divorce. Though it may not seem like it with the words I use, I have truly forgiven my ex-wife (oh how I hate that word). I have had a much harder time forgiving those (pastors) who supported her and influenced her decision. I know that only by the Power of the indwelling Spirit can I ever have the ability to forgive them as well. By the way, the closing clause of as yourself is literally making the assumption that we all do love ourselves. Just as the assumption is made in the verse from Ephesians where Paul says that NO man has ever hated his own body. Also, how in the world is divorce (especially divorce that is not allowable by Biblical standards) promote the unity of the church. It certainly doesn't obey the command to "be imitators of God, therefore, as dearly loved children and live a life of love, just as Christ loved us and gave himself up for us as a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God". Ephesians 5:1
G. Frederick,
Thanks for your kind words, and thanks for the discussion. I think we're basically in agreement except for a few minor points. Again, I'm truly sorry for what happened to you. No one deserves that. It's good to know you found your strength in Christ.
God bless.
Andrew, you have a way with words my dear friend.
Thanks for that last paragraph. :)